Hello aadil 77,
It seems that I have offended you with my questions, my sincerest apologies for that. I am, as I said, an irreligious person, this is something that my fellow Professor told me, I thought I might ask it here. I am not a believer in Islam or any other religion.
When did I say prophet Muhammad told the pagans? I don't think he told them prophet Ibrahim built it, but why would he have to? If they're pagans why would they care about prophet Ibrahim and whether he rebuilt it? the kaabah is a house of Allah and there are not supposed to be any idols inside it.
I know that they're pagans but for me as an agnostic, pagans have the same rights to freedom of religion that Muslims have, Christians have, Jews have or the same right to freedom from religion that non believers have.
I don't believe in Allah anymore than I believe in idol gods, but I am asking this regarding freedom of religion.
Ive never heard of any footprints, but the black stone is what prophet Ibrahim stood on whilst building the kaabah
With due respect aadil, I think anyone can claim anything about God or gods, they're unverifiable claims. The pagans too could have claimed that their idols represent gods found in Heaven, they're praying to God's earthly images, I have seen Christians, Hindus etc do this. When my grandma prays before idols, this is what she claims.
There were no jews is makkah only madinah, jews have been known to be cowards and they've worshipped idols themselves
I don't see why worshipping idols is "cowardice" its a personal choice to worship whatever or whosoever one pleases.Same with worshipping no god, would you say that my mother & grandmother are cowards because they revere idols of Jesus & Mary? Or I am a coward because I worship no God? I personally think that we're all intelligent human beings who worship whatever we choose to.
Whats intermarrying between jews and arabs got to do with this?
Nothing, I was just saying that they had no religious conflicts before, if the Jews too had believed that the kaaba was built by Abrahim, they in all probability should have objected to this site being used for polytheistic purposes, they didn't.
Who killed pagans over the kaabah, Are you trying to suggest something?
Please don't be offended without reason aadil, I am not trying to suggest anything at all, all I say is that, Jews & pagans had co existed peaceful previously, neither objected to the others religious rituals, they intermarried, for that matter, there was no prohibition on conversion to Christianity either, as Waraqa ibn Nawfal shows us. If the Jews had seriously believed that the kaaba was built by Abraham, they might have wanted to stop idolatry & polytheism there,they didn't.
As I asked you, you have shown no proof that it was built by Ibrahim, its only belief, exactly like pagan belief in idolatry, or atheist belief in no god.
Why would they remove them? If was part of their beliefs to keep them in the kaabah.
But Prophet Muhammad could have asked them to do this all the same, they might or might not have done this, in which case he could've smashed them. As an analogy, if someone enters into a Church with a Quran & begins reciting from it in the Church, I think its best to ask the individual to leave his book behind & come back, or leave the Church, rather than burning the Quran.
Well he was hurt when they tried many times to kill him, the prophet was very tolerent but if people start a war on you then you have the right to retaliate, so he and the companions simply conquered makkah and got rid of the filthy idols from inside the kaabah and that was it.
I would not call anyone's idols filthy aadil, same as I wouldn't call a mosque or Quran filthy. As I said, people's religious beliefs or lack thereof need to be respected. I know that people have the right to retaliate, but that doesn't include a right to destroy others' religious sites, or holy texts, for eg if Muslims attack a country today, non Muslims do have a right to retaliate, but that doesn't mean they have a right to burn all copies of the Quran or break down all mosques, then ask people to leave Islam. I think everyone has religious rights, & this is a violation of people's religious rights. Even people who have attacked you have basic rights, including rights to freedom of religion.
Yeah well if you place that idol in a mosque you can expect it to get destroyed.
I realise this, but the kaaba wasn't a mosque then, it was a place of idolatrous worship, believers believed that its a place for worshipping their idols. I asked you to show me proof that it was built by Ibrahim, you didn't do that, in the absence of proof & the Jews' non objection to idolatry there, pagans could well believe that its their religious site.
I don't believe that my house is a mosque, it contains Jesus, Mary & Saints' idols, if Muslims claimed that its originally a mosque, I would ask them for proof.
thank you, you're welcome to come and attack islam whenever you want
As I said, I have no intention to attack or offend, I am only asking about issues someone raised to me & which interest me also.